Judge Declares Mistrial In Clemens Prejury Case (UPDATED)

U.S. District Judge Reggie Walton has declared a mistrial in the Roger Clemens perjury case. The reason for this is because the prosecution used inadmissible evidence. That evidence is said to be a video of Clemens' testimony before Congress in 2008.

From what I have read the judge flipped out on the prosecution and then took a recess to think if they the case could continue. He came back later and stated that the case would be declared a mistrial. That doesn't mean Clemens is in any less trouble, but it does mean this is going to linger on, because they are going to have to select a whole new jury and start from scratch.

***UPDATE***

This might have been a bigger mistake then first thought...

"According to ESPN's T.J. Quinn, the court has to decide whether Clemens can be retried or if doing so would be double-jeapordy."

Story That Should Be Getting More Attention

"A Canadian sports doctor (Dr. Anthony Galea) whose high-profile clients have included Tiger Woods and Alex Rodriguez pleaded guilty in federal court Wednesday to bringing into the United States unapproved drugs, including human growth hormone, that were used to treat professional athletes (Boston Herald)."

I find it very odd that this story is getting no media attention. We ripped apary A-Rod for his steroid use, and yet Tiger Woods gets to walk away from this without really any notice. We were all wondering all those years how Tiger could drive so far, and be so good, could this be the answer? Could this be the reason he is having all these injuries now? I am starting to think so.

Wild Thing Took Steroids

Actor Charlie Sheen tells Sports Illustrated in its latest issue that he took steroids "for like six or eight weeks" while filming the 1989 movie "Major League." He adds that the performance-enhancing drugs helped his fastball go from 79 mph to 85 mph.

Sad day to find out the Wild Thing was no different then all the other steroid users of the 80's/90's. Actually, I find this whole thing hilarious, because it is very unnecessary since he really never looked like the was throwing all that hard in the movie. If this is true it does show how steroids can improve performance. I think we all know that by now, but every once in a while you'll get some idiot that doesn't think it has much affect. Throw 6 MPH harder is a big deal, going from 92 to 98 is a big difference, but anyways steroids are hopefully gone for good.

The Lance Armstrong Saga

I have been holding off writing about this story, because I just have no interest in cycling. At this point aren't they all dirty? Yet, this finally got my attention, because this story is so much bigger then Lance Armstrong.

Above the obvious "he was a signature of hope for cancer", which is an obvious storyline, and rightfully so. The one that grabbed my attention is how far this conspiracy went. The US Postal service is now said to be involved, laundering money helping Armstrong make positive test disappear, and even supplying him with the drugs. WEEI went on and on about it this morning after the 60 minutes thing last night, but having a federal institution like the US Postal Service involved is a big deal.

It's a shame, but we really all should've seen this coming. Like I said before almost everyone that has won anything in that sport is dirty. So, why did we think he was clean? Because it was a good story, but much like when we all bought into the McGwire/Sosa HR chase it was all a farce, the difference this time is that there is even more corruption here.

Follow the link below for video of the 60 minutes interview...

CLICK HERE

There You Have It America; Bonds Didn't Knowingly Use Steroids, Now Stop Judging

You know what Barry Bonds was convicted on yesterday? For being tricky.

Good Job America way to waste everyone's time and money and let a bunch of sports columnist convict the man on hearsay.

Bond's was convicted of Obstruction of Justice, but on the other 3 counts of steroid use he was found completely innocent. Know what came out of this trial? nothing that everyone didn't know. His trainer lied to him about what he was using and he didn't know what the cream was.... good job court.

Everyone can say what they want about Barry Bonds but you can't say that he knowingly cheated the game of baseball. It's an outrage that the public is still going to convict him, that he still won't be allowed into the Hall of Fame, and that baseball as a sport are going to put up a wall during the "Steroid Era" up and not let these great players in. A damn shame.

In case you don't know Barry Bond's credentials here they are:
1. Holds record for most MVP awards (7) and consecutive MVP awards (4) (1990, 1992-93, 2001-04)
2. Holds records for most home runs in a season (73)
3. Holds records for most walks in a career (2,512)
4. Holds record for consecutive seasons with 30 homeruns (13).
5. Only player in 400 home run and 400 stolen base club
6. Only player in 500 home run and 500 stolen base club
7. 14 time all star (1990, 1992-98, 2000-04, 2007)
8. One of four players in 40-40 club (40 home runs and 40 stolen bases)
9. Holds record for most consecutive seasons with .600 slugging percentage or higher (8)
10. 5-time SF Giants Player of the Year (1998, 2001-04)
11. 14-Time All-Star (1990, 1992-98, 2000-04, 2007)
12. 7-Time Baseball America NL All-Star OF (1993, 1998, 2000-04)
13. 3-Time Major League Player of the Year (1990, 2001, 2004)
14. 3-Time Baseball America MLB Player of the Year (2001, 2003-04)
15. 8-Time Gold Glove winner for NL Outfielder (1990-94, 1996-98)
16. 12-Time Silver Slugger winner for NL Outfielder (1990-94, 1996-97, 2000-04)
17. Led the Major Leagues in home runs (1993, 2001)
18. Led the NL in batting average (2002, 2004)
19. Led the NL in on base percentage (1991-93, 1995, 2001-04, 2006)
20. Led the Major Leagues in slugging percentage (1990, 1992-93, 2001-04)
21. Led the Major Leagues in extra base hits (1992-93, 2001)
22. Led the Major Leagues in on base percentage (1992, 2001-04)
23. Led the NL in runs (1992)
24. Led the NL in RBIs (1993)
25. Led the NL in walks (1992, 1994-97, 2000-04, 2006)
26. Led the NL in intentional walks (1992-98, 2002-04, 2006)
27. Led the NL in runs created (1992-93, 2001-02, 2004)
28. Led the Major Leagues in total bases (1993, with 365)
29. Led the Major Leagues in runs created (1993, 2001-02, 2004)
30. Led the NL in games (1995)
31. Led the NL in extra base hits (1992-93, 2001)
32. Led the NL in at bats per home run (1992-93, 1996, 2000-04)
33. 3-Time NL Hank Aaron Award winner (2001-02, 2004)
34. Led the Major Leagues in batting average (2002, with .370)

Pretty fucking impressive. He's a legend to the game and the fact that John Q. Public and Baseball Writers can dismiss this trial and say petty arguments like "his head grew" or "look it him from his rookie year to the year he broke the record" are just uninformed people.

So to all the Bonds haters out there...... Suck a dick

Manny Ramirez Retires

Manny Ramirez abruptly retired from baseball after another failed drug test for PED, he would rather have retired than serve the 100 day ban. How will I remember Manny Ramirez? I will think of him as a Hall Of Famer (If you read this site, you will know I completely dismiss Steroid or PED when talking HOF), A 2 time champion, I will think of him as the best right hander that's ever played, I will think of him as an asshole, and most importantly I will remember his numbers. Nobody can argue 2,574 hits, the 555 homers, the .585 career slugging percentage, the .996 OPS. Only two other people have put up numbers that gaudy Babe Ruth and Barry Bonds.

So all the people who question his credentials and how he got them can shove it. As much as Manny Ramirez was a pain in the ass for us as Red Sox fans, he was an all time great and should be looked at as that. The Hall Of Fame should be waiting for you Manny and if it's not, it's a travesty.

OJ Mayo Suspended For 10 Games

OJ Mayo has had a pretty tough year, 1st he gets moved to be a 6th man, then Tony Allen whoops his ass, and now he's suspended for steroids.

He claims that it's an over the counter drug and that what tested positive, but I don't get that. How as a professional athlete do you not do research in what you are putting into your body. I know the Grizzlies are getting sick of the former 3rd overall pick, so you have to wonder if those trade whispers will get louder as the deadline approaches.

Bengals Bullshit Begins

When I did the Bengals preview I said that they have got better with the moves the made in the offseason, but I still don't think they will bring it to the next level, because they have too many shitheads on the team. Well, today it seems my theory is being proved correct...

"Cincinnati Bengals defensive end Antwan Odom was leading the league in sacks in 2009 until he injured his Achilles tendon in Week 6. Back healthy, Odom was expected to be one of the leaders on D once again.

However, on Thursday, reports came in that Odom was facing a four-game suspension for testing positive for a banned substance, with some reports claiming that he had been caught taking performance-enhancing drugs. Odom issued a statement that he denies taking PEDs, and that his suspension is under appeal, per Joe Reedy of the Cincinnati Enquirer (ESPN)."

Unfortunately this probably won't help the Patriots, as the appeal will not be settled until after week 1. Still, this will be a bit of a problem, as he bring a solid pass rush for the Bengals. He is claiming it isn't steroids, but who doesn't? Even if it wasn't it was probably some other drug he shouldn't have been touching, and I very much doubt the NFL will back off.

Roger Clemens To Be Arraigned Monday

"Former Red Sox pitcher Roger Clemens, who has been indicted on six charges that he lied to Congress regarding his use of performance-enhancing drugs, is scheduled to be arraigned Monday afternoon on criminal charges in Washington D.C. Clemens will appear before U.S. District Judge Reggie Walton, facing charges that he obstructed a congressional inquiry with 15 separate statements made under oath, including the statement that he never used steroids or human growth hormone.

Clemens' attorney, Rusty Hardin, has stated that federal prosecutors offered a plea but the pitcher rejected. The former pitcher faces a maximum sentence of 30 years in prison and a $1.5 million fine (WEEI)."

This is getting really serious for Clemens. I am not sure about all the proof they have on him, but from what I have read the government doesn't usually pursue these types of charges unless they really feel like they have you. I am against that Congress wasted it's time on sports, but I am fir pressing charges in this case. You can't lie when under oath, and if you do you have to pay the price, otherwise what's the point of being under oath?

Either way someone is going to look really bad. If Clemens if convicted then his entire career is going to go down the shitter, plus he could be doing some serious jail time. If he gets off it's more tax money spent on reckless shit that doesn't matter, and Congress would look like a bunch of idiot (and they don't need any help in that department).

Cushing: No Steroids Just Overtrained

The Houston Texans asked the NFL to reduce or rescind the four-game suspension given to star linebacker Brian Cushing on Monday, saying he has a unique medical condition stemming from something called overtrained athlete syndrome. Cushing described the condition after Monday morning's practice. He said the syndrome can trigger hormonal spikes after breaks in training, explaining why he would have tested positive for a fertility drug last September -- a drug he said he never took.

"I think that's the final diagnosis we came up with," he said, "and a lot of doctors have supported why this has happened (CBS)."

I have a hard time believing this, because I really don't think that can happen that dramatically, but then again I'm no doctor. I actually think that this is going to somewhat work. The suspension will not be rescinded, but I think they will reduce it. I think the owner sticking up for him will put a lot of weight behind this, but I'm really interested to know if this is what actually happened. We will probably never know, which is too bad.

Santana Moss On HGH?

Not a person who would be at the top of my list as a user, but today it is being reported that Santana Moss received human growth hormone from Anthony Galea, the Canadian doctor who is charged with providing illegal drugs to professional players. There has been reports released a couple of weeks back that this guy was caught while making his way to meet a Redskins player, and now it seems like that was going to be Moss.

It kind of makes sense. Moss is recovering from knee surgery, and could've been using it to recover quicker. Moss is in no way in trouble from this from a legal standpoint, and is only going to be used as a witness, but you have to wonder if the NFL will go after him, even though he didn't fail a drug test.

The report goes on to say that this doctor had made many trips to New York City, Boston, Cleveland, and other US cities, so maybe this will turn into a bigger story down the road, but it probably won't unless it is somehow tied to baseball or a big name QB.

Brian Cushing Caught With Steroids (or something else)

As a result of Houston Texans linebacker Brian Cushing's suspension for violating the NFL's anti-doping policy and his admission that he took a non-steroid banned substance, The Associated Press is taking a revote for the 2009 Defensive Rookie of the Year award, which Cushing won. ESPN

Blah, blah, blah Cushing's gonna be suspended for 4 games, the Texans are gonna be in trouble, re-voting is BS, why did they wait so long? This isn't intended to be a Brian Cushing post it's a steroids post.

BMack and I talked about it a couple days ago and I figure it's important enough to write a half assed post about it.

Why is it that we vilify steroids in Baseball but not in football?

I have never heard someone say once Julius Peppers, Rodney Harrison, and others should be banned from the pro football Hall of Fame, so why do people (including our own BMack) go ape shit when a baseball player gets caught with roids. What's the difference? I'm actually an advocate of steroid use and have written numerous posts saying that it saved baseball and that McGwire, Sosa, Bonds should all be in the Hall of Fame. And when I do that people say they cheated and be striked from the record books, but no one says that about football. If I were MLBs marketing team I would constantly point to the NFL and say "hey, they do it too".

whatever, fuck all of you.

MLB Loaded With Young Pitching

Tim Kurkjian wrote a great article today, but how young pitching is taking over the game of baseball. Only a couple years ago there wasn't very much of it, and the league was dominated by HRs. Things are different now. Tim Lincecum, Josh Johnson, Tommy Hanson, Matt Cain, Ubaldo Jimenez, Clayton Kershaw, David Price, Jon Lester, Rick Porcello, Zach Grienke, and Felix Hernandez (the list goes on and on) are the ones in control now. They are the hot commodities, but why is it happening?

Is it because steroids are gone? Perhaps, but I am also interesting to know why guess can throw so much harder now. If you went back 5 years ago it was very rare to see anyone throwing 100 MPH, but now it seems like everyone has at least 1 guy who is around there. Players are just getting bigger and stronger, and with steroids gone the playing field seems to be more even.

But it isn't just the steroids. I think a lot of it is just the new wave of players. For a time you had guys like Randy Johnson, Greg Maddux, Tom Glavine, John Smoltz, Roger Clemens and Mike Mussina, but as they got older no one really stepped up and took their place until now. It happens in every major sport. Trends come and go.

Take hockey for example. After Wayne Gretzky, and Mario Lemieux retired there was a little let down of "star goal scorers". Now we are seeing the emergence of guys like Crosby, Malkin, and Ovechkin. Sports go through these times, so I hope you are all ready, because this is the age of pitching in baseball.

MLB To Test Minor Leaguers For HGH

It is about fucking time!!!

The MLB is making moves, so that the minors will be tested for HGH. If you remember earlier this week a rugby player was the first person to get caught for HGH during a test. This made the MLB confident enough to try it out in the minors. I think this is a great idea, because a lot of the players that do use will be the ones looking for the extra push to make it to the MLB. Don't get me wrong, the MLB needs this too, but it is a good first step.

What is interesting is that the NFL players union is fighting this exact testing right now. It is amazing how that isn't a major news story, but anything with the MLB about this is. All leagues should have this, so that there is fair play, and we don't get in to situations where guys are breaking records they don't deserve, or at the very least had an unfair advantage over the previous record holder.

Fisk Calls It Like He Sees It

People are going to slam McGwire for awhile, and he 100% deserves it, but I thought Fisk did a hell of a job...

"[McGwire] says, 'Well, it doesn't help eye-and-hand coordination.' Well, of course it does," Fisk told the Tribune for Wednesday's editions. "It allows you more acuity physically and mentally and optically. You are going to be stronger and you are going to be better.

"Some of these numbers that are out there are really warped. Should they be considered? You saw how McGwire was viewed in the Hall of Fame voting. If you take the length of time that [steroid users] use that stuff and subtract 15 or 20 home runs a year for those guys, where are their numbers then?"

Oh, and he doesn't stop there. He goes on to attack McGwire for saying that the PEDs did not help his home run production (the biggest piece of shit lie ever!!!)...

"That's a crock," Fisk told the Tribune. "There's a reason they call it performance-enhancing drugs. That's what it does -- performance enhancement. You can be good, but it's going to make you better. You can be average, but it is going to make you good. If you are below average, it is going to make you average. Some guys who went that route got their five-year, $35 million contracts and now are off into the sunset somewhere. Because once they can't use [steroids] anymore, they can't play anymore."

"Try having your knees operated on and catching for 30 years," Fisk added. "Do you think you feel good when you go out there? [McGwire] had to stand around and play first base. So excuuuuuse me."

Then he started after Clemens...

"The reason he got let go from the Red Sox [after the 1996 season] was because he was starting to break down," Fisk told the Tribune. "His last couple of years in Boston just weren't very productive, a la 'The Rocket.' Then all of a sudden he goes to Toronto and he wants to show somebody something. Then he gets two consecutive Cy Young Awards [in '97 and '98]. Come on, give me a bucket.

"It's obvious to players. You notice that stuff. You know how hard it is to play the game. You know how hard it is to be productive at any age, but especially at an older age. You see guys who are as productive later on as they were early [in their careers]. It offends guys that stayed clean."

Sorry about all the quotes, but they are all too classic to not put them up. I agree 100% with everything Fisk had to say, but the sad thing is there is very little you can do about it now, other then not letting it happen again. McGwire, Bonds, Sosa, are all in the record books already. I don't see the MLB having the balls to take them out, and you really can put a asterisk next to their name, because you don't really know who did and who didn't use steroids. I guess you could put it next to McGwire's name because he admitted it, but what does that do? If you did that it would just give another reason for guys like Bonds and Sosa to never admit it.

Baseball is my favorite sport right now, it is too bad that we sat back and revered something that was fake. Guys like Hank Aaron, Babe Ruth should be revered and atop the record books, but now we are stuck with talented players who may have been good enough to break these records without any help, but did it anyways (when actually the doctors should probably be the ones given credit).

It's just too bad.

Mark McGwire Comes Clean, Admits Steroids

Here is his whole admission:
"Now that I have become the hitting coach for the St. Louis Cardinals, I have the chance to do something that I wish I was able to do five years ago.

I never knew when, but I always knew this day would come. It's time for me to talk about the past and to confirm what people have suspected. I used steroids during my playing career and I apologize. I remember trying steroids very briefly in the 1989/1990 off season and then after I was injured in 1993, I used steroids again. I used them on occasion throughout the '90s, including during the 1998 season.

I wish I had never touched steroids. It was foolish and it was a mistake. I truly apologize. Looking back, I wish I had never played during the steroid era.

During the mid-'90s, I went on the DL seven times and missed 228 games over five years. I experienced a lot of injuries, including a ribcage strain, a torn left heel muscle, a stress fracture of the left heel, and a torn right heel muscle. It was definitely a miserable bunch of years and I told myself that steroids could help me recover faster. I thought they would help me heal and prevent injuries, too.

I'm sure people will wonder if I could have hit all those home runs had I never taken steroids. I had good years when I didn't take any and I had bad years when I didn't take any. I had good years when I took steroids and I had bad years when I took steroids. But no matter what, I shouldn't have done it and for that I'm truly sorry.

Baseball is really different now -- it's been cleaned up. The commissioner and the players' association implemented testing and they cracked down, and I'm glad they did.

I'm grateful to the Cardinals for bringing me back to baseball. I want to say thank you to Cardinals owner Mr. DeWitt, to my GM, John Mozeliak, and to my manager, Tony La Russa. I can't wait to put the uniform on again and to be back on the field in front of the great fans in Saint Louis. I've always appreciated their support and I intend to earn it again, this time as hitting coach. I'm going to pour myself into this job and do everything I can to help the Cardinals hitters become the best players for years to come.

After all this time, I want to come clean. I was not in a position to do that five years ago in my congressional testimony, but now I feel an obligation to discuss this and to answer questions about it. I'll do that, and then I just want to help my team."

Well doesn't that beat all? Mark McGwire did steroids, you don't say? This was a smart move by him anyways due to him being in the limelight again. He would be constantly bombarded by these questions all the time in St. Louis, and now it can be all brushed under the rug because America loves forgiving. Now if they can please leave that innocent Barry Bonds alone.


BMack's Take:


All I can say is it is about fucking time...

"Mark McGwire finally came clean Monday, admitting he used steroids when he broke baseball's home run record in 1998. McGwire said in a statement sent to The Associated Press on Monday that he used steroids on and off for nearly a decade.

"I wish I had never touched steroids," McGwire said in a statement. "It was foolish and it was a mistake. I truly apologize. Looking back, I wish I had never played during the steroid era."

McGwire also used human growth hormone, a person close to McGwire said, speaking on condition of anonymity because McGwire didn't include that detail in his statement (Boston.com)."

Since McGwire wants to come back into baseball and be a hitting coach I am glad that he finally came out and admitted it. I wish he had just done it right away, but now there is no question that he used steroids, and probably will not be voted into the Hall of Fame, but the road to forgiveness with fans usually starts with the truth. I don't think you'll see as much backlash as you might think....

La Russa's Real Motives For McGwire As DH

I found this very interesting...

"Yesterday we talked about how Mark McGwire will begin the next stage of his baseball life as hitting coach of the Cardinals, but Tony La Russa might have more in mind.

La Russa told the Contra Costa Times that he might even consider using McGwire as a pinch-hitter. To wit: "If we're in contention, we'll put him on the roster Aug. 31. It's a nice little dream," said La Russa. "Is it likely? Probably not. I don't think it's a zero possibility."

Now, however, people are questioning motives. The conspiracy theorists -- we use such phrases as the highest of compliments -- at the New York Daily News speculate that La Russa is actually buying time for McGwire to get into the Hall of Fame. By pushing back the initial vote on Big Red another five years, more time will pass and we'll get all weepy and come to terms with our own conflicted love affair with the steroid era ... or something along those lines (ESPN)."

I hate it, but I have to admit it is a smart move. If they can delay the vote for the Hall of Fame McGwire has a much better shot at getting in. All the numbers are there, but it is obviously the whole steroids thing that is holding him back. I don't think he should get it, but I am also very against steroid use. Still, you got to admit that this is an ingenious plan.....if it's true.

Mayweather Blasts Pacquiao

"Floyd Mayweather Jr. blamed Manny Pacquiao for the collapse of their prospective bout Thursday, claiming the Filipino boxer refuses to accept a reasonable compromise on drug testing concerns. Mayweather also says he's still ready to sign a deal for the fight, which was slated for March 13 at the MGM Grand Garden in Las Vegas before Pacquiao promoter Top Rank declared it dead Wednesday night.

"In my opinion it is Manny Pacquiao and his team who are denying the people a chance to see the biggest fight ever," Mayweather said. "I know the people will see through their smokes screens and lies. I am ready to fight and sign the contract. Manny needs to stop making his excuses, step up and fight (CBSSports)."

I am not watching a single boxing event until these guys fight. I said it yesterday, and I'll say it again, boxing always finds a way to shoot itself in the foot, and this just proves that. I am on Mayweather's side here, since he isn't fighting about, but rather that this is a fair fight. I know the testing is a little much compared to what the Nevada Boxing Commission does, but I really don't care. Just get it gone, and get in the ring!!!!!!!!

McGwire Coming Back As Coach And Pinch-Hitter?

"Mark McGwire will begin the next stage of his baseball life as hitting coach of the Cardinals, but could manager Tony La Russa have something else in mind? La Russa told the Contra Costa Times that he might even consider using McGwire as a pinch-hitter.

"If we're in contention, we'll put him on the roster Aug. 31. It's a nice little dream," said La Russa. "Is it likely? Probably not. I don't think it's a zero possibility."

La Russa added that he expects McGwire to have a press conference by the end of the month and definitely before the start of spring training. Remember, Big Mac doesn't like to talk about the past (ESPN)."

Personally, I don't think McGwire should be aloud near an MLB field again, but that is completely biased. Still, he has been out of the game too long, and I just don't think he has anything in the tank to be a pinch hitter. My real question here is why would you put more of a spotlight on a guy who has done everything he can to avoid it?

Manny Pacquiao vs. Floyd Mayweather Fight Cancelled

"The much-anticipated showdown between Manny Pacquiao and Floyd Mayweather, tentatively scheduled for March 13 at the MGM Grand in Las Vegas, has collapsed, Top Rank promoter Bob Arum told ESPN.com on Wednesday night.

"The fight's off," Arum, who promotes Pacquiao, said from Las Vegas.

The fight died after a last-ditch attempt at mediation between Top Rank and Golden Boy, which represents Mayweather, failed in an effort to determine the drug-testing protocol.

Pacquiao had agreed to move off his hard-line stance of refusing a blood test inside 30 days before the fight, but Mayweather wouldn't budge off his desire for random testing all the way until the fight, Arum said. Nor would Mayweather agree to a public apology for remarks he made accusing Pacquiao of using performance-enhancing drugs, Arum said.

"I am very disappointed that we could not make this fight for the fans and I am angered because of the false accusations from Golden Boy and the Mayweather camp that I used some type of drugs, and that is why I have instructed our American lawyers to proceed with the lawsuit to clear my name," Pacquiao said in a statement (ESPN)."

Well boxing has done it once again. Just when there was a chance of this sport becoming relevant once again they go and blow it. To be honest there has to be much more to this then just the steroid testing, but still I blame Pacquiao. Why not just agree to all the testing. There is so much money to be made here, and yet they are willing to throw it all away just because Mayweather wants more testing, just seems silly to me.

Anyways, way to go boxing, you have once again shown us that the fighters don't care at all about who is the best of all time (or about the fans)...